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ladies and gentlemen all the way from

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the United States of the Great America

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it's mr. Brian boom boom Dunning your

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queen wants you to listen to skep tied

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at sceptile calm but only after you've

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listened to the skeptic zone I'm Brian

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Dunning from sceptile calm god bless you

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and all that's I'll in you Brian welcome

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to the skeptic zone the podcast from

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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for the 16th of November 2013 show

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number 265 Richard Saunders here with

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you from Sydney Australia last night oh

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man the Thunder and the lightning it was

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a classic horror movie lightning sheets

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going across the sky vertically

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horizontally upside down I was upside

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down or something it was pretty full-on

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it was a lot of fun but enough about the

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weather report coming up on this week's

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episode of the skeptic zone may not

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interview to part two to you get to

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Maynard's for the price of one this week

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the first part of maine aren't right at

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the top of the show may know is going to

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be chatting to brian dunning from the

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sceptile cast now we've been noticing

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that lately brian has been producing a

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lot of stories about Australia curious

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goings-on like the Tasmanian tiger the

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West Hall UFO the disappearance of pilot

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frederick valença to UM some say was

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taken by a UFO why is Brian so

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interested in Australia we'll find out

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may nod we'll ask the hard questions

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well have fun questions anyway find out

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why Brian downing is concentrating on

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Australia I'm good on in for doing so

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following part 1 of maynard as the

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parrots of singing you hang on that's

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better open window where was I listening

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to the parents outside following part 1

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of maynard we have a week in science

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with dr. Paul Willis from the Royal

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Institution of Australia www RI aus org

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dot I you and you know I really should

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go and visit that institution one day I

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really should and following that I

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interview an old friend of mine Bob

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blaskowitz from Wisconsin he's going to

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be talking about the Brazil ski clinic

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yeah the claims of curing cancer and a

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major story that's broken on USA Today

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all about that clinic very worthwhile

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interview stay tuned for that

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and to round off the show part 2 of main

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ideas a double-barreled Maynard this

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week well may not find some interesting

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people to say the least and he's going

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to be talking to somebody he met at

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skeptic camp who wants to marry their

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car beep yes Maynard talks to cater way

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about her plans to marry her car why you

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ask find out later on in the show now

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some great news for you people down in

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Victoria down in Melbourne Morty

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skeptics in the pub on Tuesday the 19th

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of this month which is only in a few

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days are going to be hosting professor

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christopher french who's out here for

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the national skeptics convention if you

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want to see Chris French talk before the

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convention go to ww Emmett up calm /

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Morty Python skeptics hyphen in high

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from the Python pub Google Morty

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skeptics or just follow the link on the

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show notes for this week now it wasn't

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that long ago where I was a guest of the

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more d skeptics in the pub and what a

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great night I had down there well worth

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it if you're in the area that's just

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down south of melbourne and thank you to

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those people who have re-signed for the

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skeptic zone for the subscriptions

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because i had to change the paypal

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account most people have done that i'm

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very pleased to say and just for general

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interest out there of all the people who

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listen to the skeptic zone less than one

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percent less than one percent subscribe

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earth chuck in and less than a dollar a

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week or a bit more to help the skeptic

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zone interesting less than one percent

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but believe me i am grateful for those

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people who do if you didn't there would

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be no skeptics on it sir it's as simple

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as that and if you want to help the

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skeptic zone and it's people like you

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who were able to cover Maynard's hotel

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costs for the upcoming convention so he

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can bring you more great reports over

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the next weeks just visit www tech zone

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v and follow the paypal links well now

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it's time for me to run downstairs see

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if I got some parrot pie left in the

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fridge oh well I do that I hope you

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here's Maynard spooky action at the

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look yeah we've just had a huge huge day

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here melbourne cup of course and when we

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think of melbourne cup and horse races

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we think of brian dunning how are you

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Brian I am excellent how are you I

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believe you are an ex jockey I would

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break the horses back actually as

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Dunning ever spent any time at the track

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as a skeptical man who looks for

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evidence have you ever put a bet on

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there on the track Brian I have to say I

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I have not although that's probably one

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of the more science-based forms of

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gambling that one might be able to do

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that's true oh how about the Greyhounds

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or the trots what are you get into there

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I don't even think we have those here

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and on this side of the pond to do they

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I don't know you got to get her a

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greyhound meeting you there's a lot of

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people that look like Arthur daily from

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that show minder a lot of people like

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that hanging around in colorful suits

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it's a great time look I'm just a

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recovering from it yes cuz you heard me

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mucking around at the Melbourne Cup and

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you didn't know what it was with it was

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a football game or anything I heard

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melbourne cup and i saw the report i

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watched the entire thing and at no point

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was it mentioned what the melbourne cup

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is and I I figured it out I thought it

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was probably a horse race but wasn't

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quite sure now I'm ringing you because

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look you're doing a lot of pandering

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what a pandering at the moment Brian

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you're doing a lot of australian-based

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skep tied stories now sceptile it has

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been running I think for the last 20

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years and suddenly there's all these

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Australian episodes are you pandering to

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us what's going on I am I'm desperately

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trying to get a receive an invitation to

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come visit now it's just uh you know I

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do a different subject every week and

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I've done some 370 something episodes

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now and it just so happened that there

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were a few a few Australian legends in

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the in the pipeline so yeah I wasn't

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really by design but yeah there's been

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some interesting stuff from Down Under

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Australians go nuts for skip tied it's

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like smoking ice like if you can't smoke

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ice you listen to skip do it here in

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this country it is it is really bizarre

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I do a lot of reporting on where the

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listeners come from and they're really

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out of proportion of Australians are by

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far the most the most common listeners

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to the show per capita

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I have no explanation for why that is

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other than they're just far more

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intelligent than the rest of the world

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do you think it might have been because

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of the way you able to bust a move at

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tam Australia why you were dancing I I I

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danced there and that was held in a

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Masonic Lodge if I believe what because

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that was the room that was available for

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that size of group and I did a great

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pose standing there and they're great

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big ceremonial thrown at the front of

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the room and people photoshopped

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lightning bolts unto my hands and it was

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a I think I convinced people that I have

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some sort of supernatural powers well it

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was a big blow out because because you

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were there George rob was there we had

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the skeptics guide to the universe

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people there and it was big but these

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were people that I'd never met before I

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wasn't too aware of the shows that you

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all did and it was a good introduction

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to a lot of people oh and for us it was

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a great introduction to so many great

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australian skeptics like dr. Karl I mean

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he's virtually unknown in the United

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States and we just had we just had a

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smashing time that now you you've looked

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at the Tasmanian tiger and what else you

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got planned as your pandering to the

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Ozzy's well though in the last couple of

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weeks yeah I did I did a really

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interesting episode on the Tasmanian

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tiger and in which I learned at least as

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much as listeners will and the previous

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week I did the the disappearance of

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Frederick valenta SH the young pilot who

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disappeared in 1978 and people thought

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he was abducted by aliens now we'll

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we'll get back to that I got a few

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questions fear on you there's a few

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things you overlooked in your so-called

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report okay but and what else you been

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get what do you got planned can you

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spill the beans um I you know I I have

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I'm three or four episodes ahead there's

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a let's see that the one that came out

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today was the visiting who was the first

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to reach the new world by sea was it to

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one of the various claims from Europe or

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was it possibly a claim from China

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Christopher Columbus's of course wasn't

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widely accepted but there's but there's

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other claimants to that

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eyes as well and then the next one is an

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awesome I die I'd be putting a bed in on

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the Egyptians yeah you're not you're not

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far off there are there are claims from

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just about everywhere except Australia I

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think it were late to the party I don't

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think the I don't think the the

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aboriginals were we're paddling their

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canoes quite that far yet know that they

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were happy nomads just sort of road that

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they did a bit of seafaring around the

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Torres Strait and everything but I don't

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think they went into continent but we

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know but they could have I could be

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wrong about that one of the things I

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learned about the aboriginals spreading

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through down into Australia and bringing

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the dingoes with them from Asia that

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that was what contributed to the

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extinction of the Tasmanian tiger from

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mainland Australia that was something

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that I hadn't known yes and and also

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here they're trying to keep an eye on

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the Fox population in Tasmania too

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because they didn't have foxes down

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there and one or two of them got off a

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boat or something stowed away on a boat

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or was a couple of years ago and they're

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a little bit of a fox problem turning up

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down there wow I did not know that mmm

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that's only view but let's look at this

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valenta CH case now would you like to

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explain what was the alleged skip toid

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take on this because it's a fairly

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famous one it is but but the the

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conclusion that I reached is not

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something that I had found reported

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anywhere else the basic story is it is a

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young man 20 years old rented a plane

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was going to fly to Tasmania and

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disappeared while over the water and

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that by itself is not especially unusual

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what is unusual is that just before he

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disappeared he reported a UFO he was

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talking to I believe the Melbourne and

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he was reporting a UFO was hovering

269
00:12:00,600 --> 00:11:58,420
above him and flying around him and then

270
00:12:02,460 --> 00:12:00,610
that was one of his final transmissions

271
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:02,470
before he before he unfortunately

272
00:12:07,949 --> 00:12:06,730
crashed into the water and what you want

273
00:12:10,410 --> 00:12:07,959
me to spill the beans you I'm gonna talk

274
00:12:12,689 --> 00:12:10,420
about say well because it's never been

275
00:12:15,389 --> 00:12:12,699
found I don't think you can definitively

276
00:12:17,970 --> 00:12:15,399
say he crashed into the water no he know

277
00:12:22,710 --> 00:12:17,980
the plane was well I'm selected pieces

278
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:22,720
did wash up Oh see I've got the that's

279
00:12:26,220 --> 00:12:24,730
right now I'm nice

280
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:26,230
stand corrected by the power of Dunning

281
00:12:30,689 --> 00:12:29,290
but what I there's two things that or

282
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:30,699
maybe three things you didn't mention in

283
00:12:35,850 --> 00:12:33,130
the story that maybe maybe you've got an

284
00:12:37,199 --> 00:12:35,860
explanation for and that was the at the

285
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:37,209
end of his broadcast and his

286
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:39,130
transmission and no one has heard it X I

287
00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:40,930
think he's father had it played to him

288
00:12:44,910 --> 00:12:42,310
but there's only a transcript but at the

289
00:12:48,290 --> 00:12:44,920
end of that transcript there's about 17

290
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:48,300
seconds of a metallic grinding sound

291
00:12:55,350 --> 00:12:51,130
right and you're correct i didn't happen

292
00:12:58,410 --> 00:12:55,360
to mention that you know i I've done a

293
00:13:00,300 --> 00:12:58,420
number of air crash episodes for one

294
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:00,310
reason or another half a dozen or so of

295
00:13:05,519 --> 00:13:03,130
them and these flight recordings are

296
00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:05,529
always a part of the investigation and

297
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:07,690
when there's when the plane crashes

298
00:13:12,150 --> 00:13:09,610
there's always strange sounds at the end

299
00:13:13,379 --> 00:13:12,160
of the recording and this was not a

300
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:13,389
flight recorder of course this was

301
00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:16,720
coming over the radio who knows what

302
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:18,850
that was it just the the the radio could

303
00:13:23,310 --> 00:13:20,290
have been in the water and it made a

304
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:23,320
strange sound we don't know but I didn't

305
00:13:26,730 --> 00:13:24,610
I did just didn't happen to mention that

306
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:26,740
I didn't find that that told us anything

307
00:13:30,420 --> 00:13:28,570
at all because it's not at all

308
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:30,430
unexpected for there to be strange

309
00:13:34,220 --> 00:13:32,170
sounds at the end of a at the end of a

310
00:13:37,230 --> 00:13:34,230
transmission like that and the other two

311
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:37,240
incidents that go along with the valenta

312
00:13:42,090 --> 00:13:39,250
CH case is that there was a small family

313
00:13:45,300 --> 00:13:42,100
group that seemed to view what they

314
00:13:46,889 --> 00:13:45,310
claimed was a light plane matching the

315
00:13:48,870 --> 00:13:46,899
rough lyst description of the one that

316
00:13:51,180 --> 00:13:48,880
he had the Cessna and some sort of light

317
00:13:52,980 --> 00:13:51,190
above it going down at a 45-degree angle

318
00:13:55,110 --> 00:13:52,990
a group of three people plane that they

319
00:13:58,199 --> 00:13:55,120
saw that from the coastline around about

320
00:14:02,250 --> 00:13:58,209
that time to do and uncover that i did

321
00:14:04,889 --> 00:14:02,260
and i also found some photographs that

322
00:14:06,329 --> 00:14:04,899
someone took looking out that direction

323
00:14:08,309 --> 00:14:06,339
that's right there was a photographer

324
00:14:09,629 --> 00:14:08,319
taking some time lapse photos of the

325
00:14:11,790 --> 00:14:09,639
sunset there was some interesting

326
00:14:13,379 --> 00:14:11,800
splodges around about that time on a

327
00:14:15,750 --> 00:14:13,389
negative what did you make of that Brian

328
00:14:18,750 --> 00:14:15,760
well they were they clearly had no

329
00:14:20,759 --> 00:14:18,760
remote relation to what the windish was

330
00:14:23,129 --> 00:14:20,769
describing so I have no idea what those

331
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:23,139
pictures were of but I found no reason

332
00:14:27,930 --> 00:14:25,690
at all to connect those two to what

333
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:27,940
happened and then this this similar

334
00:14:31,230 --> 00:14:29,170
thing with the family reporting

335
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:31,240
something he was he was too far away

336
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:33,810
from the land for anyone to have

337
00:14:39,570 --> 00:14:37,690
visually observed what was going on so I

338
00:14:41,790 --> 00:14:39,580
even I decided not to even bring those

339
00:14:43,620 --> 00:14:41,800
into the conversation because I just I

340
00:14:46,770 --> 00:14:43,630
just couldn't couldn't see that they

341
00:14:49,290 --> 00:14:46,780
were reliably relevant and what about

342
00:14:51,180 --> 00:14:49,300
the conflicting reasons he gave for

343
00:14:52,980 --> 00:14:51,190
flying too i believe it was king island

344
00:14:56,220 --> 00:14:52,990
there was a few different reasons there

345
00:14:59,430 --> 00:14:56,230
what do you think was going on yeah that

346
00:15:01,950 --> 00:14:59,440
was a that was awfully strange he he

347
00:15:04,260 --> 00:15:01,960
told he told his family that he was

348
00:15:07,290 --> 00:15:04,270
going to pick up crayfish and he told

349
00:15:08,580 --> 00:15:07,300
Freddie he told he told the airport he

350
00:15:11,130 --> 00:15:08,590
was going to pick up some friends yeah

351
00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:11,140
he's gonna pick up people and and now he

352
00:15:17,190 --> 00:15:14,560
had had he flown at night before / Ward

353
00:15:20,010 --> 00:15:17,200
like this he had never flown at night

354
00:15:22,170 --> 00:15:20,020
over water he was instrument he did have

355
00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:22,180
a type of instrument rating but this is

356
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:23,920
the first time he'd ever actually flown

357
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:27,010
at night for water and just as what

358
00:15:31,470 --> 00:15:29,410
happened to John F Kennedy jr. trying to

359
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:31,480
fly outside of your of your flight

360
00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:33,850
envelope that's unfortunately when

361
00:15:39,180 --> 00:15:35,710
accidents like this happened the most

362
00:15:42,030 --> 00:15:39,190
often okay well look out look I'm

363
00:15:44,370 --> 00:15:42,040
sticking with the grand UFO theory at

364
00:15:46,590 --> 00:15:44,380
the moment um it doesn't get what you

365
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:46,600
know I'm sticking to my theory that that

366
00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:48,370
I came up with at the end of my episode

367
00:15:54,590 --> 00:15:50,710
well look this this whole evidence thing

368
00:15:59,580 --> 00:15:57,660
actually but but what I came up with was

369
00:16:01,440 --> 00:15:59,590
more interesting and more interesting

370
00:16:02,940 --> 00:16:01,450
than saying there was a UFO and I will

371
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:02,950
libel point people to that episode and

372
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:04,330
have a listen and join the conversation

373
00:16:09,900 --> 00:16:06,130
about that have you got much of a

374
00:16:11,340 --> 00:16:09,910
reaction to that one um not so much it's

375
00:16:14,490 --> 00:16:11,350
not it's not one of the types of

376
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:14,500
episodes that really excites people's

377
00:16:20,460 --> 00:16:17,770
passions there are always a few a few

378
00:16:22,740 --> 00:16:20,470
people who are dedicated UFO believers

379
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:22,750
who insist on a UFO being the

380
00:16:27,540 --> 00:16:25,810
explanation for everything and there

381
00:16:29,370 --> 00:16:27,550
were comments from from them but but

382
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:29,380
otherwise it's it's it's more of an

383
00:16:32,970 --> 00:16:31,450
episode where we're just learning

384
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:32,980
interesting history and it's like wow

385
00:16:37,710 --> 00:16:34,330
that's really cool i didn't know this

386
00:16:39,270 --> 00:16:37,720
particular fact and it's not the kind of

387
00:16:41,370 --> 00:16:39,280
thing that brings out the crazies quite

388
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:41,380
as often one of the ones which which is

389
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:44,410
a nice a nice a nice respite for me one

390
00:16:48,030 --> 00:16:46,210
of the ones that you did a while back

391
00:16:50,460 --> 00:16:48,040
that was a very Australian yeah i think

392
00:16:51,420 --> 00:16:50,470
it's the biggest UFO sighting mass UFO

393
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:51,430
sighting we had

394
00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:53,890
Australian history was the Westall 66

395
00:17:00,180 --> 00:16:56,730
sighting in Melbourne yeah and in fact

396
00:17:02,450 --> 00:17:00,190
that that happened at the same Airport

397
00:17:07,819 --> 00:17:02,460
where Frederick valenta took off from

398
00:17:11,819 --> 00:17:07,829
moorabbin airport in in Melbourne the

399
00:17:15,179 --> 00:17:11,829
1966 westall UFO was the strange

400
00:17:16,770 --> 00:17:15,189
sightings reported from a school and a

401
00:17:19,890 --> 00:17:16,780
bunch bunch of school children

402
00:17:23,189 --> 00:17:19,900
supposedly came up with made all of

403
00:17:25,020 --> 00:17:23,199
these reports and there are stories

404
00:17:26,579 --> 00:17:25,030
saying that then government officials

405
00:17:30,110 --> 00:17:26,589
came to the school and told everyone to

406
00:17:32,370 --> 00:17:30,120
shut up and things like this and

407
00:17:34,620 --> 00:17:32,380
television documentaries have been made

408
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:34,630
kind of promoting these sort of

409
00:17:40,530 --> 00:17:37,570
conspiratorial angles and these versions

410
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:40,540
of the story that are greatly magnified

411
00:17:45,419 --> 00:17:42,730
and changed from what was reported at

412
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:45,429
the time you know we're here 50 years

413
00:17:51,210 --> 00:17:48,640
later and and the stories have just

414
00:17:53,070 --> 00:17:51,220
changed quite a lot and if you go back

415
00:17:55,500 --> 00:17:53,080
to what was actually being reported and

416
00:17:57,990 --> 00:17:55,510
talked about in 1966 you get a whole

417
00:17:59,490 --> 00:17:58,000
different story than if you go to what

418
00:18:02,340 --> 00:17:59,500
people are saying now 50 years later

419
00:18:03,810 --> 00:18:02,350
which is you know largely who knows what

420
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:03,820
the source of what they're saying today

421
00:18:09,510 --> 00:18:06,610
is but it's not what they were talking

422
00:18:11,549 --> 00:18:09,520
about in 1966 and that proves to be a

423
00:18:13,860 --> 00:18:11,559
whole new interesting story all by

424
00:18:16,740 --> 00:18:13,870
itself but Brian do you think with a

425
00:18:19,380 --> 00:18:16,750
with a mass sighting like that I'm often

426
00:18:21,150 --> 00:18:19,390
I run into this with people from The

427
00:18:23,100 --> 00:18:21,160
Skeptical movement there they have

428
00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:23,110
almost a little bit quick to dismiss

429
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:26,110
eyewitness accounts and I know people

430
00:18:29,580 --> 00:18:28,330
can be fooled easily but you know you

431
00:18:33,690 --> 00:18:29,590
gotta wonder there might be something

432
00:18:36,150 --> 00:18:33,700
there well you've started with with a

433
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:36,160
faulty assumption in your comment just

434
00:18:40,620 --> 00:18:38,290
now you said a mass sighting and when

435
00:18:42,540 --> 00:18:40,630
you go back to what was reported in 1966

436
00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:42,550
it was not a mass sighting only a very

437
00:18:46,169 --> 00:18:44,110
few people at the school saw anything

438
00:18:48,150 --> 00:18:46,179
and what they all saw was in different

439
00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:48,160
directions and and was described very

440
00:18:52,650 --> 00:18:50,710
differently and we now have a pretty

441
00:18:55,410 --> 00:18:52,660
good idea of what each of these

442
00:18:57,810 --> 00:18:55,420
different people saw what's reported

443
00:18:59,400 --> 00:18:57,820
today is that some giant spaceship came

444
00:19:01,020 --> 00:18:59,410
down in the field and hundreds of school

445
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:01,030
children ran over and they all witnessed

446
00:19:05,250 --> 00:19:03,130
it and that simply bears no resemblance

447
00:19:08,100 --> 00:19:05,260
to the original version of the store

448
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:08,110
is this fairly typical of mess sightings

449
00:19:13,050 --> 00:19:09,610
around the world they get blown out like

450
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:13,060
that over time uh it is it is typical

451
00:19:21,090 --> 00:19:16,930
what what also happens in many cases is

452
00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:21,100
that one particular person will be sort

453
00:19:25,260 --> 00:19:22,870
of the caretaker of the story and will

454
00:19:27,540 --> 00:19:25,270
be the person who writes and researches

455
00:19:29,250 --> 00:19:27,550
and reports and this person's own

456
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:29,260
impression of what he thinks happened

457
00:19:36,210 --> 00:19:31,690
will become the popular version of the

458
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:36,220
story so in many cases we have reports

459
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:37,570
of many people having witnessed

460
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:40,510
something that is really just kind of

461
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:41,890
the wishful thinking of one particular

462
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:45,010
person who sort of creates the legend we

463
00:19:48,660 --> 00:19:46,720
have the whole famous Roswell story here

464
00:19:52,260 --> 00:19:48,670
in the United States and that was also

465
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:52,270
created largely by one person my that is

466
00:19:58,290 --> 00:19:54,730
actually one bit of testable evidence in

467
00:20:00,000 --> 00:19:58,300
the West all 66 sighting which is

468
00:20:02,850 --> 00:20:00,010
overlooked even in the documentary that

469
00:20:05,630 --> 00:20:02,860
there's apparently a girl who came close

470
00:20:08,580 --> 00:20:05,640
to what this object was and became

471
00:20:11,550 --> 00:20:08,590
unconscious and sick and was taken away

472
00:20:14,340 --> 00:20:11,560
in an ambulance and never returned now

473
00:20:15,420 --> 00:20:14,350
to me that sounds like you could hunt

474
00:20:18,270 --> 00:20:15,430
that down there must be a record

475
00:20:19,530 --> 00:20:18,280
somewhere of that well if something like

476
00:20:21,500 --> 00:20:19,540
that had happened I'm sure they're

477
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:21,510
probably would be a record there isn't

478
00:20:25,550 --> 00:20:23,650
there's really no reason to think that

479
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:25,560
that is anything but a modern invention

480
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:27,730
there's certainly no reference to

481
00:20:32,820 --> 00:20:30,250
anything remotely like that from the

482
00:20:37,020 --> 00:20:32,830
1966 ports but what's the most

483
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:37,030
controversial in this case UFO case that

484
00:20:40,740 --> 00:20:38,650
you've covered on skip toward that

485
00:20:43,410 --> 00:20:40,750
really just people haven't you old Brian

486
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:43,420
get out of get under the house well that

487
00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:45,490
you know that might be one of them only

488
00:20:52,140 --> 00:20:49,110
the the Westall UFO is something that

489
00:20:54,450 --> 00:20:52,150
the people who really believe in it

490
00:20:56,130 --> 00:20:54,460
firmly take it very seriously and it's

491
00:20:58,760 --> 00:20:56,140
an important passionate part of their

492
00:21:02,400 --> 00:20:58,770
lives i would say comparable to that is

493
00:21:05,220 --> 00:21:02,410
the Rendlesham forest UFO which happened

494
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:05,230
in the UK there was a there was an

495
00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:07,810
American Air Force Base inside the UK

496
00:21:12,150 --> 00:21:10,510
what is reported is that a spaceship

497
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:12,160
with colored lights came down in the

498
00:21:18,060 --> 00:21:15,490
trees and Air Force men went over to it

499
00:21:19,049 --> 00:21:18,070
and touched it and and measured its its

500
00:21:21,210 --> 00:21:19,059
footprints in the

501
00:21:23,310 --> 00:21:21,220
and had all of this hard evidence and

502
00:21:26,060 --> 00:21:23,320
and and they took an audio recording of

503
00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:26,070
their adventure and the people who

504
00:21:33,450 --> 00:21:29,049
believe this story are also extremely

505
00:21:35,730 --> 00:21:33,460
passionate and when I talk about the

506
00:21:37,230 --> 00:21:35,740
story from the perspective of what we've

507
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:37,240
actually been able to find through

508
00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:39,490
researching what the real evidence is

509
00:21:42,629 --> 00:21:40,960
and what was actually reported at the

510
00:21:46,379 --> 00:21:42,639
time when I talk about it from that

511
00:21:48,239 --> 00:21:46,389
perspective people get furious if you're

512
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:48,249
doing anything but promoting this sort

513
00:21:53,039 --> 00:21:50,730
of pop culture sensationalized version

514
00:21:56,879 --> 00:21:53,049
some people can get extremely passionate

515
00:21:58,889 --> 00:21:56,889
and it's kind of weird and what do you

516
00:22:00,210 --> 00:21:58,899
make of the the audio recording that was

517
00:22:02,129 --> 00:22:00,220
made at the time it's obvious that

518
00:22:07,139 --> 00:22:02,139
they're seeing something in there

519
00:22:09,690 --> 00:22:07,149
alarmed yeah what you know I'll get the

520
00:22:12,149 --> 00:22:09,700
same I'll get the same the same sort of

521
00:22:14,009 --> 00:22:12,159
feedback for saying it now but what's in

522
00:22:16,350 --> 00:22:14,019
the audio recording it's it's available

523
00:22:18,779 --> 00:22:16,360
you can listen to the whole thing is

524
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:18,789
that they were going through the trees

525
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:20,970
and they saw the Orford ness lighthouse

526
00:22:27,690 --> 00:22:24,490
blowing off in the distance and I took a

527
00:22:31,289 --> 00:22:27,700
recording of that audio and played it

528
00:22:33,090 --> 00:22:31,299
alongside a beep which I played every

529
00:22:34,590 --> 00:22:33,100
five seconds representing the blinking

530
00:22:36,779 --> 00:22:34,600
of the lighthouse and every time you

531
00:22:38,430 --> 00:22:36,789
hear that beep you hear the guys in the

532
00:22:41,249 --> 00:22:38,440
recording say oh there it is again oh

533
00:22:42,749 --> 00:22:41,259
there it is again and when you line the

534
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:42,759
two up it's quite obvious that they're

535
00:22:48,210 --> 00:22:46,090
seeing a 5-second flashing light there's

536
00:22:49,619 --> 00:22:48,220
nothing in the recording that supports

537
00:22:51,989 --> 00:22:49,629
the version of the story that's told

538
00:22:53,580 --> 00:22:51,999
today which is that spaceship came down

539
00:22:56,340 --> 00:22:53,590
and landed and guys went up and touched

540
00:22:58,109 --> 00:22:56,350
it that's apparently just simply made up

541
00:23:00,450 --> 00:22:58,119
by some of these guys years and years

542
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:00,460
and years later I'll Braun after all the

543
00:23:04,409 --> 00:23:01,570
excitement of the Melbourne Cup you

544
00:23:06,389 --> 00:23:04,419
bumming me out man but all is say all is

545
00:23:09,299 --> 00:23:06,399
ever so all this evidence of yours

546
00:23:10,590 --> 00:23:09,309
here's there is nothing no no you're

547
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:10,600
looking at the wrong way there is

548
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:13,330
nothing to be bummed out by finding out

549
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:15,369
what's really going on because you

550
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:17,440
always find new information that you

551
00:23:21,389 --> 00:23:19,450
didn't know before if you heard this

552
00:23:23,789 --> 00:23:21,399
modern sensationalized version of the

553
00:23:25,799 --> 00:23:23,799
story it's wrong it's pseudo history

554
00:23:28,109 --> 00:23:25,809
that's not interesting when you find out

555
00:23:30,899 --> 00:23:28,119
what actually happened that's where the

556
00:23:32,970 --> 00:23:30,909
that's where the real fun is and also

557
00:23:35,310 --> 00:23:32,980
the real arguments online with you

558
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:35,320
indeed we've got the big one coming up

559
00:23:39,419 --> 00:23:37,330
of course it's the 50th anniversary of

560
00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:39,429
the assassination of JFK we've got the

561
00:23:43,380 --> 00:23:41,049
big meeting in Canberra over that

562
00:23:45,870 --> 00:23:43,390
weekend my friend Jay cats is actually

563
00:23:47,909 --> 00:23:45,880
having a night at the Carousel Club at

564
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:47,919
the vanguard in King Street in King

565
00:23:51,570 --> 00:23:49,690
Street Newtown they're going to recreate

566
00:23:54,030 --> 00:23:51,580
the Carousel Club from the night before

567
00:23:56,310 --> 00:23:54,040
people can come as Secret Service agents

568
00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:56,320
their favorite member member of the

569
00:23:59,100 --> 00:23:57,730
Kennedy family and people will be

570
00:24:01,260 --> 00:23:59,110
singing they'll be screening some

571
00:24:04,620 --> 00:24:01,270
conspiracy films and i will be going as

572
00:24:06,570 --> 00:24:04,630
a Secret Service agent oh my gosh I want

573
00:24:07,799 --> 00:24:06,580
to go look it's gonna be great and

574
00:24:09,180 --> 00:24:07,809
people are missing in the bars having a

575
00:24:10,409 --> 00:24:09,190
great time there and and there'll be a

576
00:24:13,169 --> 00:24:10,419
screening of a couple of different

577
00:24:15,390 --> 00:24:13,179
theories on the night and of course it's

578
00:24:16,740 --> 00:24:15,400
a big one and now you have you covered

579
00:24:21,810 --> 00:24:16,750
this a number of times we'll be

580
00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:21,820
revisiting it I I have that JFK is the

581
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:24,400
granddaddy of all conspiracy theories

582
00:24:30,060 --> 00:24:27,370
and what I've been doing since I started

583
00:24:31,409 --> 00:24:30,070
the show seven years ago is trying to

584
00:24:35,039 --> 00:24:31,419
figure out how I'm going to do that

585
00:24:37,650 --> 00:24:35,049
episode look uh yeah I have all the

586
00:24:39,930 --> 00:24:37,660
information it's just it's you can't

587
00:24:41,490 --> 00:24:39,940
possibly cover all the different angles

588
00:24:44,130 --> 00:24:41,500
I need to find a way to cover that story

589
00:24:46,530 --> 00:24:44,140
in my usual show length which is about

590
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:46,540
10 minutes and and actually add

591
00:24:50,610 --> 00:24:48,730
something to the conversation it's

592
00:24:53,740 --> 00:24:50,620
almost like you've got to grab one fact

593
00:24:57,190 --> 00:24:53,750
of it or 11 anomaly

594
00:24:59,290 --> 00:24:57,200
it may have to I mean I could also break

595
00:25:01,690 --> 00:24:59,300
it up into 50 different episodes for

596
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:01,700
covering 50 of the many hundreds of

597
00:25:05,290 --> 00:25:03,410
different conspiracy theories that have

598
00:25:06,910 --> 00:25:05,300
been suggested about it I don't know how

599
00:25:09,010 --> 00:25:06,920
I'm going to do it quite frankly it we

600
00:25:10,870 --> 00:25:09,020
just have just we just had the one

601
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:10,880
screened here where they floated the

602
00:25:14,530 --> 00:25:12,890
theory that it was an accidental shot of

603
00:25:16,870 --> 00:25:14,540
one of the Secret Service agents who

604
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:16,880
didn't have the assault rifle and near

605
00:25:21,910 --> 00:25:19,610
the car on safety and that's what right

606
00:25:25,270 --> 00:25:21,920
right I i I've only learned about that

607
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:25,280
one recently of course the there's

608
00:25:30,580 --> 00:25:28,000
there's a 1600 page book which is the

609
00:25:33,970 --> 00:25:30,590
the magnum opus about the JFK

610
00:25:36,130 --> 00:25:33,980
assassination by Vince Bugliosi and at

611
00:25:41,980 --> 00:25:36,140
sixteen hundred pages that needs to be

612
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:41,990
my main research source material I don't

613
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:43,490
know how I'm gonna squeeze that look I

614
00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:46,010
did an interview with someone who had

615
00:25:51,010 --> 00:25:48,110
had a great theory a few years ago it's

616
00:25:54,340 --> 00:25:51,020
on the Maynard combo you website there

617
00:25:56,740 --> 00:25:54,350
and I his theory is that it was the

618
00:25:57,970 --> 00:25:56,750
Cubans and it's an 800-page book and he

619
00:26:00,040 --> 00:25:57,980
went through the whole thing about that

620
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:00,050
so there's certainly some really wait

621
00:26:06,490 --> 00:26:04,490
ebooks on this oh it's and we're talking

622
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:06,500
about the craziness of the UFO

623
00:26:11,950 --> 00:26:08,930
conspiracy people it's the craziness of

624
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:11,960
the Kennedy assassination people that

625
00:26:19,990 --> 00:26:17,330
takes the cake I I have heard of I've

626
00:26:24,150 --> 00:26:20,000
heard of these conspiracy theory people

627
00:26:27,070 --> 00:26:24,160
becoming violent at conferences

628
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:27,080
confrontational it's actually kind of

629
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:29,330
scary the people who take these theory

630
00:26:35,290 --> 00:26:32,480
is so personally and they take them like

631
00:26:36,730 --> 00:26:35,300
religion so it's going to be really

632
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:36,740
interesting when I when I do that

633
00:26:42,130 --> 00:26:39,050
episode look I had a very interesting

634
00:26:44,650 --> 00:26:42,140
day last year or the year before I I

635
00:26:46,150 --> 00:26:44,660
spent it with a friend of mine and I

636
00:26:49,630 --> 00:26:46,160
spent it with Richard Saunders and and

637
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:49,640
the friend said to me so Richard

638
00:26:53,410 --> 00:26:51,290
Saunders doesn't think that it's

639
00:26:54,790 --> 00:26:53,420
possible that JFK was actually

640
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:54,800
assassinated by his own government i

641
00:26:57,690 --> 00:26:56,210
said yes that's what which it sort of

642
00:27:02,020 --> 00:26:57,700
things and then later on in the day

643
00:27:04,210 --> 00:27:02,030
Richard Saunders said it really um do

644
00:27:06,610 --> 00:27:04,220
people really think that JFK was

645
00:27:07,340 --> 00:27:06,620
assassinated that's such a bizarre idea

646
00:27:09,620 --> 00:27:07,350
and I

647
00:27:10,789 --> 00:27:09,630
was I had the mirror conversation with

648
00:27:13,610 --> 00:27:10,799
both of them it was a really interesting

649
00:27:15,980 --> 00:27:13,620
day but you know heads of state through

650
00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:15,990
the centuries have been assassinated

651
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:18,510
Brian it's not it's not something that

652
00:27:24,830 --> 00:27:22,530
is impossible yeah I will often hear

653
00:27:27,020 --> 00:27:24,840
well here look at look at julius caesar

654
00:27:29,299 --> 00:27:27,030
he was assassinated by hit by a

655
00:27:31,310 --> 00:27:29,309
conspiracy of his own government and if

656
00:27:34,909 --> 00:27:31,320
that can happen then why couldn't this

657
00:27:37,220 --> 00:27:34,919
happen and the the answer that i like to

658
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:37,230
give for that that sort of explanation

659
00:27:42,620 --> 00:27:39,570
that sort of support for a conspiracy

660
00:27:46,190 --> 00:27:42,630
theory is that never existed as a

661
00:27:48,020 --> 00:27:46,200
conspiracy theory that was a crime that

662
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:48,030
was committed and was discovered on the

663
00:27:52,220 --> 00:27:49,770
spot there was there was never any

664
00:27:54,289 --> 00:27:52,230
period of time where conspiracy

665
00:27:55,730 --> 00:27:54,299
theorists suspected that was what had

666
00:27:58,430 --> 00:27:55,740
happened and it hadn't yet been

667
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:58,440
discovered so claims like that are very

668
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:00,960
poor support for the idea that there is

669
00:28:05,539 --> 00:28:02,730
some hidden shadow conspiracy that's

670
00:28:09,260 --> 00:28:05,549
existed for you know decades now being

671
00:28:12,049 --> 00:28:09,270
undiscovered i I have yet to find a

672
00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:12,059
conspiracy theory that exists only as a

673
00:28:16,460 --> 00:28:14,640
conspiracy theory that turns out to be

674
00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:16,470
true I've never heard of one well what

675
00:28:20,750 --> 00:28:18,960
about all that massive spying the NSA is

676
00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:20,760
doing on everyone if I'd said that to

677
00:28:23,690 --> 00:28:22,049
you a couple of months ago you go on

678
00:28:25,010 --> 00:28:23,700
main are just stretching the truth a

679
00:28:26,810 --> 00:28:25,020
little bit they're not really collecting

680
00:28:30,740 --> 00:28:26,820
metadata on anyone they can possibly

681
00:28:33,289 --> 00:28:30,750
collect it on and they are I'm not I'm

682
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:33,299
not sure well first of all there had if

683
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:36,570
you had made a specific suggestion then

684
00:28:41,299 --> 00:28:37,890
I would be really really really

685
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:41,309
impressed if you had just said the NSA

686
00:28:47,870 --> 00:28:45,450
spies on on US citizens I would have

687
00:28:50,270 --> 00:28:47,880
answered well of course that's what the

688
00:28:53,810 --> 00:28:50,280
NSA does that's their charter that's why

689
00:28:56,570 --> 00:28:53,820
they exist there's no surprise there but

690
00:28:59,450 --> 00:28:56,580
if you had mentioned that that that if

691
00:29:00,950 --> 00:28:59,460
you gave some very specific like it

692
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:00,960
turns out that they were collecting

693
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:03,210
Google searches by a wiretap on this

694
00:29:07,940 --> 00:29:05,850
particular fiber optic going across the

695
00:29:09,710 --> 00:29:07,950
Pacific then I would have been impressed

696
00:29:13,250 --> 00:29:09,720
that you proved to be correct with that

697
00:29:14,930 --> 00:29:13,260
with that particular prediction but it's

698
00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:14,940
not good enough to just make some vague

699
00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:16,799
statement about the government is doing

700
00:29:20,030 --> 00:29:18,510
something evil and someday it's going to

701
00:29:20,750 --> 00:29:20,040
come out because well of course that's

702
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:20,760
true

703
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:22,890
you need to be more specific but that's

704
00:29:27,380 --> 00:29:25,650
our earn my living Brian you know that

705
00:29:29,270 --> 00:29:27,390
the vague statements are my living you

706
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:29,280
see you just put a big statement out

707
00:29:34,970 --> 00:29:32,370
there and then you retrofit it and

708
00:29:37,850 --> 00:29:34,980
sometimes it's humorous and sometimes it

709
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:37,860
works I will recommend well I mean

710
00:29:44,750 --> 00:29:40,410
probably skeptics might not be so into

711
00:29:46,790 --> 00:29:44,760
it but the very first theory on JFK that

712
00:29:49,550 --> 00:29:46,800
came out in a documentary form rushed to

713
00:29:52,820 --> 00:29:49,560
judgment and I recommend one scene in

714
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:52,830
that that's where the journalist is

715
00:29:59,030 --> 00:29:56,130
talking to the the very cool black piano

716
00:30:00,440 --> 00:29:59,040
player from the Carousel Club and he's

717
00:30:02,330 --> 00:30:00,450
interviewing him about what happened at

718
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:02,340
the Carousel Club the night before but

719
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:04,050
he's actually playing the piano while

720
00:30:07,370 --> 00:30:06,210
he's answering the questions he goes so

721
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:07,380
were their secret agents there he goes

722
00:30:11,270 --> 00:30:09,360
yeah ding ding ding ding they were there

723
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:11,280
ting ting ting very cool scene i

724
00:30:15,950 --> 00:30:14,130
recommend that can you tell whether he's

725
00:30:18,350 --> 00:30:15,960
lying by whether there's piano playing

726
00:30:19,820 --> 00:30:18,360
gets faster or slower well I'm well I

727
00:30:21,470 --> 00:30:19,830
guess it's a bit like a a lie detector

728
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:21,480
or something isn't it there's some very

729
00:30:26,930 --> 00:30:23,760
colorful very colorful characters in

730
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:26,940
that in that docker I'd like to see it

731
00:30:30,890 --> 00:30:29,130
I'll send you that we should post it up

732
00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:30,900
on somewhere and look I want to talk to

733
00:30:36,170 --> 00:30:34,080
you about of course I in fact this is um

734
00:30:38,030 --> 00:30:36,180
this is where you have done some special

735
00:30:40,430 --> 00:30:38,040
videos in fact this I think there's even

736
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:40,440
in here be dragons there's even a scene

737
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:45,570
of you in bed yeah there's a the in fact

738
00:30:50,500 --> 00:30:48,570
video series is where I take selected

739
00:30:52,490 --> 00:30:50,510
sceptile episodes that are that are

740
00:30:54,530 --> 00:30:52,500
particularly provocative and

741
00:30:58,520 --> 00:30:54,540
controversial and I turn them into a

742
00:30:59,840 --> 00:30:58,530
short three-minute YouTube video you

743
00:31:04,480 --> 00:30:59,850
know episodes that get people really

744
00:31:07,330 --> 00:31:04,490
angry like a frakking aspartame fluoride

745
00:31:09,860 --> 00:31:07,340
global warming GMOs things like that and

746
00:31:11,540 --> 00:31:09,870
that's always good because I get tons of

747
00:31:12,650 --> 00:31:11,550
negative feedback on YouTube and if you

748
00:31:14,180 --> 00:31:12,660
know you don't get negative feedback

749
00:31:16,670 --> 00:31:14,190
you're not you're not doing something

750
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:16,680
right and I get to be making any more in

751
00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:19,890
the near future the in facts absolutely

752
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:22,110
I'm that since since I'm a I'm a

753
00:31:29,030 --> 00:31:25,410
full-time science writer and podcaster

754
00:31:30,890 --> 00:31:29,040
basically and doing video takes extra

755
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:30,900
time and resources that I don't have so

756
00:31:34,330 --> 00:31:32,490
I've got a there's a little thermometer

757
00:31:37,060 --> 00:31:34,340
on the in fact video

758
00:31:38,830 --> 00:31:37,070
dot-com website that once that gets

759
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:38,840
filled with with donations for an

760
00:31:41,980 --> 00:31:40,490
episode then I can then I can afford to

761
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:41,990
take the time and make each episode so

762
00:31:45,460 --> 00:31:43,730
yeah I make an episode every time that

763
00:31:49,060 --> 00:31:45,470
gets filled usually takes a month or two

764
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:49,070
between episodes but um but yeah I plan

765
00:31:51,940 --> 00:31:50,330
to continue making them they're lots of

766
00:31:53,649 --> 00:31:51,950
fun because I want to tell people that

767
00:31:55,539 --> 00:31:53,659
you know they should support skip toy

768
00:31:57,970 --> 00:31:55,549
because at that some some weeks you have

769
00:31:59,919 --> 00:31:57,980
to eat the processed cheese you can't

770
00:32:02,230 --> 00:31:59,929
get the good proper cheese you have to

771
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:02,240
get the cheese slices and the families

772
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:04,730
going hungry so people should should hit

773
00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:07,730
the tin force kept I'd people tend yeah

774
00:32:12,610 --> 00:32:10,640
people tend to forget that the people

775
00:32:14,889 --> 00:32:12,620
like like well like Richard Saunders and

776
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:14,899
like me that do this for a living I mean

777
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:17,450
we depend on people donating and

778
00:32:21,310 --> 00:32:19,130
supporting the show it's not something

779
00:32:23,980 --> 00:32:21,320
that just happens freely and it's there

780
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:23,990
for people to consume it is there freely

781
00:32:27,779 --> 00:32:25,610
for people to consume if they want to do

782
00:32:30,730 --> 00:32:27,789
that but it depends on the people who

783
00:32:33,399 --> 00:32:30,740
you know choose to you know sort of join

784
00:32:36,159 --> 00:32:33,409
our mission and help us make this make

785
00:32:38,260 --> 00:32:36,169
these shows a reality it absolutely does

786
00:32:40,810 --> 00:32:38,270
live and die based on whether or not

787
00:32:43,029 --> 00:32:40,820
people support it and so it's a you're

788
00:32:45,159 --> 00:32:43,039
not you're not far off it's a big drop

789
00:32:48,100 --> 00:32:45,169
in income for me and my family from when

790
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:48,110
i was doing consulting before but it's

791
00:32:52,990 --> 00:32:50,770
so worth while it's i enjoy it so much

792
00:32:55,269 --> 00:32:53,000
when well you know look at you were

793
00:32:56,710 --> 00:32:55,279
consulting to a lap dancing club so it's

794
00:33:01,360 --> 00:32:56,720
probably a better thing you're doing now

795
00:33:02,919 --> 00:33:01,370
I definitely did some interesting

796
00:33:07,029 --> 00:33:02,929
consulting in my day yeah Brian

797
00:33:09,220 --> 00:33:07,039
boom-boom Dunning yeah he might go to

798
00:33:10,930 --> 00:33:09,230
the gooseneck would you like to learn

799
00:33:13,180 --> 00:33:10,940
away from that subject would you like to

800
00:33:17,230 --> 00:33:13,190
watch Brian panda on the main stage

801
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:17,240
always like a private panda see and

802
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:20,090
that's the ER kind not the da kine look

803
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:21,440
although i still am mad with you about

804
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:23,690
the whole real thing i was on board with

805
00:33:28,029 --> 00:33:25,730
the whole Nazi UFOs are so hot right now

806
00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:28,039
thing thinking the Vril was an actual

807
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:30,529
occult movement but oh no Brian Dunning

808
00:33:34,510 --> 00:33:32,210
comes along and tells me it is actually

809
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:34,520
a book a fictional book that people were

810
00:33:40,779 --> 00:33:37,370
basing their beliefs on and well it look

811
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:40,789
yes but but there was a real society it

812
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:42,770
was just I mean it was basically one of

813
00:33:48,010 --> 00:33:45,770
these weird clubs in Berlin in the 1920s

814
00:33:50,860 --> 00:33:48,020
where people got naked and drankin

815
00:33:53,890 --> 00:33:50,870
did weird things and they gave it some

816
00:33:56,020 --> 00:33:53,900
occult sounding name says it sounds like

817
00:33:58,750 --> 00:33:56,030
the the German version of the Hellfire

818
00:34:00,850 --> 00:33:58,760
Club in Sydney is that what it is if I'm

819
00:34:02,620 --> 00:34:00,860
well that sounds like something I need

820
00:34:05,380 --> 00:34:02,630
to investigate my further they've got a

821
00:34:08,110 --> 00:34:05,390
photo of you up in the dressing room do

822
00:34:09,610 --> 00:34:08,120
they yes very nice one do good shorts

823
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:09,620
why do I not know these things well

824
00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:11,690
because I see you got up to a lot when

825
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:15,200
you were here yeah the foot I couldn't

826
00:34:19,450 --> 00:34:17,330
have done it or the footprint of Brian

827
00:34:24,690 --> 00:34:19,460
Dunning across the the nightlife in

828
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:24,700
Sydney was amazing but please continue

829
00:34:30,190 --> 00:34:27,770
well let's see what uh the the newest

830
00:34:33,970 --> 00:34:30,200
thing I've got going right now is the

831
00:34:36,820 --> 00:34:33,980
the fifth book every every so often I'll

832
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:36,830
take 50 of the best scaffold episodes

833
00:34:40,389 --> 00:34:38,450
and I'll compile them into a book and

834
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:40,399
adapt them and everything and I've just

835
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:42,890
got number five is coming out it should

836
00:34:50,350 --> 00:34:46,970
be available later this month which is

837
00:34:53,050 --> 00:34:50,360
called massacres monsters and miracles

838
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:53,060
it's a whole collection of awesome

839
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:55,370
stories in a book and books are nicer

840
00:35:00,640 --> 00:34:57,050
than podcasts in that you can give them

841
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:00,650
to your grandma and it's really a huge

842
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:02,690
amount of work and I'm thrilled that

843
00:35:07,750 --> 00:35:05,210
it's finally going to be over within a

844
00:35:09,940 --> 00:35:07,760
couple of weeks when we got when we get

845
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:09,950
them sent out but massacres monsters and

846
00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:13,250
miracles check your amazon com soon keep

847
00:35:16,900 --> 00:35:14,510
an eye out for that keep an eye out for

848
00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:16,910
in fact and what's the website and where

849
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:19,760
do we need to go mr. Dunning you need to

850
00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:22,130
go to skip tide calm and you can catch

851
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:25,280
all the latest episodes those from

852
00:35:29,290 --> 00:35:27,770
Australia those not from Australia don't

853
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:29,300
forget we got the men men light we've

854
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:31,250
got picnic at hanging rock all kinds of

855
00:35:35,410 --> 00:35:34,010
great Aussie stories on there well can I

856
00:35:39,150 --> 00:35:35,420
can I do the sawn-off that's right

857
00:35:54,420 --> 00:35:39,160
you're Brian Dunning from sceptile com

858
00:35:59,260 --> 00:35:57,010
did you see that UFO sighting that made

859
00:36:00,970 --> 00:35:59,270
the news what did that latest study

860
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:00,980
about alternative treatments really say

861
00:36:06,370 --> 00:36:03,410
is this photo making the rounds real or

862
00:36:08,230 --> 00:36:06,380
hoax doubtful news is a unique website

863
00:36:10,390 --> 00:36:08,240
featuring news about pseudoscience the

864
00:36:12,090 --> 00:36:10,400
paranormal anomalies and questionable

865
00:36:15,340 --> 00:36:12,100
claims framed with the skeptical view

866
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:15,350
come visit doleful newscom every day for

867
00:36:20,950 --> 00:36:17,810
news about cryptozoology conspiracies

868
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:20,960
shams scams and more follow us on

869
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:23,450
twitter at doubtful news critical

870
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:25,010
thinking is essential in assessing

871
00:36:34,170 --> 00:36:27,290
today's news duffel news helps you

872
00:36:39,580 --> 00:36:36,970
welcome to a week in science from our

873
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:39,590
iOS bringing you the science news you

874
00:36:46,060 --> 00:36:42,530
need to know stand in the head during

875
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:46,070
sex smelly hyenas and the Olympic torch

876
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:48,530
reaching new heights spend another great

877
00:37:01,130 --> 00:36:58,460
you're having a nice quiet cuddle and

878
00:37:03,140 --> 00:37:01,140
then BAM along comes a stab in the head

879
00:37:05,060 --> 00:37:03,150
well that's what happens in certain

880
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:05,070
species of sea slug which are

881
00:37:10,460 --> 00:37:07,290
hermaphrodites that's when each slug is

882
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:10,470
both male and female while slugs are

883
00:37:14,810 --> 00:37:12,690
mating they push a syringe like

884
00:37:17,030 --> 00:37:14,820
appendage into each other's forward

885
00:37:19,940 --> 00:37:17,040
injecting each other with secretions

886
00:37:22,610 --> 00:37:19,950
from their prostate glands researchers

887
00:37:25,130 --> 00:37:22,620
aren't clear why this sea slug stabbing

888
00:37:26,930 --> 00:37:25,140
slice on nerf occurs but it could help

889
00:37:29,810 --> 00:37:26,940
with such things as increasing a

890
00:37:33,650 --> 00:37:29,820
production some days I'm grateful for

891
00:37:35,990 --> 00:37:33,660
being a human researchers have linked

892
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:36,000
specific human actions to changes in

893
00:37:41,540 --> 00:37:38,640
global warming they found that global

894
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:41,550
warming slowed down in the 1990s which

895
00:37:47,630 --> 00:37:45,090
is directly linked to the 1987 Montreal

896
00:37:50,900 --> 00:37:47,640
Protocol that band ozone depleting

897
00:37:53,030 --> 00:37:50,910
substances like CFCs they also found

898
00:37:55,580 --> 00:37:53,040
that warming slowed during the two world

899
00:37:58,100 --> 00:37:55,590
wars and the Great Depression when the

900
00:38:00,680 --> 00:37:58,110
poor economy limited our greenhouse gas

901
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:00,690
emissions however warming spiked again

902
00:38:06,020 --> 00:38:04,170
in the 1960s as the economy improved and

903
00:38:08,990 --> 00:38:06,030
we got back on our feet you're listening

904
00:38:13,180 --> 00:38:09,000
to a week in science from RI oz and now

905
00:38:15,950 --> 00:38:13,190
for signs headlines in 30 seconds

906
00:38:18,500 --> 00:38:15,960
depression may make you age faster by

907
00:38:21,470 --> 00:38:18,510
shortening your telomeres the part of

908
00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:21,480
DNA that controls when cells die a

909
00:38:26,450 --> 00:38:23,520
compound has been found that forces

910
00:38:28,060 --> 00:38:26,460
bacteria to digest themselves providing

911
00:38:30,290 --> 00:38:28,070
hope in the fight against

912
00:38:32,090 --> 00:38:30,300
antibiotic-resistant superbugs the

913
00:38:34,070 --> 00:38:32,100
Olympic torch has been taken for a

914
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:34,080
spacewalk outside the International

915
00:38:39,170 --> 00:38:36,810
Space Station by two astronauts and the

916
00:38:41,030 --> 00:38:39,180
scent glands of hyenas contain special

917
00:38:43,910 --> 00:38:41,040
bacteria that help them to communicate

918
00:38:47,450 --> 00:38:43,920
with the female scent changing according

919
00:38:49,250 --> 00:38:47,460
to her reproductive stage November's

920
00:38:50,810 --> 00:38:49,260
science behind the headlines will be

921
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:50,820
looking at two of the most pressing

922
00:38:56,660 --> 00:38:53,130
public health issues in Australia

923
00:38:58,550 --> 00:38:56,670
depression and anxiety with one in four

924
00:39:01,460 --> 00:38:58,560
Australians likely to have mental health

925
00:39:03,500 --> 00:39:01,470
issues in their life our expert panel

926
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:03,510
will look at mental health and analyze

927
00:39:08,540 --> 00:39:05,850
how the media deals with it the

928
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:08,550
tails on our website that's it for this

929
00:39:13,250 --> 00:39:11,130
a week in science for more information

930
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:13,260
on these and other science news stories

931
00:39:19,580 --> 00:39:16,410
go to the are Isles website are I au s

932
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:19,590
dot org a you follow us on Twitter using

933
00:39:25,370 --> 00:39:22,770
the hashtag week inside and like us on

934
00:39:36,170 --> 00:39:25,380
Facebook I'm for Willis and i'll catch

935
00:39:37,670 --> 00:39:36,180
you next week hey guys this is jay from

936
00:39:40,340 --> 00:39:37,680
the skeptics guide to the universe er

937
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:40,350
whoa whoa whoa hold on whoa everybody

938
00:39:43,700 --> 00:39:41,850
knows I'm the only reason to listen to

939
00:39:48,770 --> 00:39:43,710
the Freak Show right I mean it was up to

940
00:39:51,350 --> 00:39:48,780
me the show would start with this yeah

941
00:39:53,870 --> 00:39:51,360
boy well Rebecca would hate that

942
00:39:55,310 --> 00:39:53,880
probably but I mean I'd rock that listen

943
00:39:56,780 --> 00:39:55,320
to our show you can learn about cool

944
00:39:58,220 --> 00:39:56,790
stuff like a technological singularity

945
00:40:00,080 --> 00:39:58,230
which is someday when technology

946
00:40:01,460 --> 00:40:00,090
progresses so fast that it would make

947
00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:01,470
the Industrial Revolution look like a

948
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:03,510
kid science project anyway come check us

949
00:40:29,999 --> 00:40:28,410
well friends hot off the presses as it

950
00:40:31,439 --> 00:40:30,009
were there's breaking news coming out of

951
00:40:33,569 --> 00:40:31,449
America and I've got an old friend of

952
00:40:36,150 --> 00:40:33,579
mine Bob let's go it's all the way from

953
00:40:38,309 --> 00:40:36,160
Wisconsin although i think i'm pretty

954
00:40:43,529 --> 00:40:38,319
sure i bumped into him in atlanta and

955
00:40:45,839 --> 00:40:43,539
las vegas hello Bob hey Richard we did

956
00:40:49,799 --> 00:40:45,849
have some fun times at DragonCon didn't

957
00:40:53,819 --> 00:40:49,809
we oh we certainly did I once helped you

958
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:53,829
give a dowsing demonstration I couldn't

959
00:40:58,170 --> 00:40:55,690
find the hidden water it was it was

960
00:41:00,269 --> 00:40:58,180
great you mean your dowsing powers

961
00:41:05,549 --> 00:41:00,279
escaped you at the time that's terrible

962
00:41:07,079 --> 00:41:05,559
yeah yeah perform under pressure it's an

963
00:41:09,390 --> 00:41:07,089
old story well it's good to catch up

964
00:41:11,699 --> 00:41:09,400
because there is some interesting news

965
00:41:13,890 --> 00:41:11,709
coming out of the states in only in the

966
00:41:16,410 --> 00:41:13,900
last few hours as it were and this is

967
00:41:18,900 --> 00:41:16,420
has to do with a story that skeptics

968
00:41:22,499 --> 00:41:18,910
have been following for a long time with

969
00:41:25,170 --> 00:41:22,509
a guy who says he can cure cancer that's

970
00:41:27,689 --> 00:41:25,180
the impression he gives one Stanislav

971
00:41:30,269 --> 00:41:27,699
leszczynski if I've got that right yep

972
00:41:36,469 --> 00:41:30,279
Stan Pierzynski known to his friends as

973
00:41:41,279 --> 00:41:36,479
stash yeah um yeah um he sells a

974
00:41:43,319 --> 00:41:41,289
concoction called antineoplastons he is

975
00:41:48,329 --> 00:41:43,329
the one who discovered them in in blood

976
00:41:50,609 --> 00:41:48,339
and urine he is the one who manufactures

977
00:41:53,009 --> 00:41:50,619
it he's the one who prescribes it and

978
00:41:58,049 --> 00:41:53,019
he's the one who dispenses it it's all

979
00:42:01,039 --> 00:41:58,059
all in-house operation um and he's been

980
00:42:03,870 --> 00:42:01,049
treating patients under the auspices of

981
00:42:06,299 --> 00:42:03,880
clinical trials for the last 15 years

982
00:42:10,170 --> 00:42:06,309
the only way that he can legally do it

983
00:42:15,329 --> 00:42:10,180
and I there were you know in the last

984
00:42:19,249 --> 00:42:15,339
week Tim Farley uh released a our friend

985
00:42:23,279 --> 00:42:19,259
Tim Farley from from Atlanta released a

986
00:42:25,349 --> 00:42:23,289
form 483 switch our FDA inspection notes

987
00:42:27,569 --> 00:42:25,359
about Pierzynski himself as an

988
00:42:30,180 --> 00:42:27,579
investigator and they found a whole host

989
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:30,190
of irregularities in the way that he was

990
00:42:36,479 --> 00:42:34,170
carrying out his investigations on that

991
00:42:37,290 --> 00:42:36,489
irregularities that might renders the

992
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:37,300
the trials

993
00:42:42,060 --> 00:42:39,490
problematic if they were ever to you no

994
00:42:43,980 --> 00:42:42,070
attempt to publish this is a classic

995
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:43,990
story of somebody who set up a clinic

996
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:49,090
and people from around the world who are

997
00:42:53,100 --> 00:42:50,890
in desperate need you know we're talking

998
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:53,110
about people with bad news about cancer

999
00:42:59,220 --> 00:42:55,930
who maybe aren't doing so well their

1000
00:43:03,080 --> 00:42:59,230
traditional Orthodox treatment are

1001
00:43:06,510 --> 00:43:03,090
flying getting money and going to this

1002
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:06,520
baczynski fellow and paying an awful lot

1003
00:43:14,460 --> 00:43:11,770
of money ya dumb it costs a man at least

1004
00:43:16,470 --> 00:43:14,470
twenty fifteen thousand twenty thousand

1005
00:43:19,650 --> 00:43:16,480
dollars and were in there to start

1006
00:43:21,980 --> 00:43:19,660
treatment and you know up to seven

1007
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:21,990
thousand dollars or more per month

1008
00:43:26,070 --> 00:43:24,370
thereafter it's not covered by insurance

1009
00:43:31,260 --> 00:43:26,080
you know we don't have national health

1010
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:31,270
here it's it's a severe hardship on

1011
00:43:36,930 --> 00:43:35,290
patients and they often turn to their

1012
00:43:39,690 --> 00:43:36,940
communities for help to pay for this

1013
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:39,700
expensive treatment which is after 36

1014
00:43:48,180 --> 00:43:44,250
years still unproven and what has gotten

1015
00:43:52,340 --> 00:43:48,190
American skeptics so excited has been

1016
00:43:54,870 --> 00:43:52,350
the front page story that appeared in

1017
00:43:57,930 --> 00:43:54,880
USA Today one of the most in fact the

1018
00:44:02,730 --> 00:43:57,940
most widely circulated paper in in the

1019
00:44:05,820 --> 00:44:02,740
US and it was not a good day for Stan

1020
00:44:09,540 --> 00:44:05,830
Burzynski the reporter brought more

1021
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:09,550
skepticism and nuance to the story than

1022
00:44:13,530 --> 00:44:11,770
anybody I've seen in a long time but

1023
00:44:16,170 --> 00:44:13,540
actually ever really it was a wonderful

1024
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:16,180
story well just for the benefit of our

1025
00:44:20,700 --> 00:44:18,130
listeners what I'll do now is I'll play

1026
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:20,710
a quick grab a quick clip from the audio

1027
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:23,290
video that accompanies that story on us

1028
00:44:29,970 --> 00:44:27,970
day today six years a Houston doctor

1029
00:44:32,820 --> 00:44:29,980
named Stanislaw Burzynski has made a

1030
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:32,830
remarkable claim he says he's found the

1031
00:44:39,210 --> 00:44:35,890
secret to curing cancer with drugs that

1032
00:44:41,370 --> 00:44:39,220
he isolated from human urine yet a USA

1033
00:44:43,790 --> 00:44:41,380
Today investigation has found those

1034
00:44:46,430 --> 00:44:43,800
claims may be too good to be true

1035
00:44:48,780 --> 00:44:46,440
Burzynski calls these drugs

1036
00:44:50,910 --> 00:44:48,790
antineoplastons and describes them as

1037
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:50,920
natural non-toxic

1038
00:44:55,470 --> 00:44:53,530
and extremely effective Brzezinski has

1039
00:44:57,720 --> 00:44:55,480
publicly claimed that he can cure up to

1040
00:45:00,299 --> 00:44:57,730
half of patients with inoperable brain

1041
00:45:03,809 --> 00:45:00,309
stem tumors which other doctors

1042
00:45:05,609 --> 00:45:03,819
described as almost universally fatal so

1043
00:45:07,589 --> 00:45:05,619
that's just a little grab their from the

1044
00:45:09,870 --> 00:45:07,599
the video that accompanies the story in

1045
00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:09,880
USA Today that's pretty big news

1046
00:45:16,370 --> 00:45:12,400
actually if that's a story on on that

1047
00:45:22,099 --> 00:45:16,380
outlet some people are taking notice I

1048
00:45:26,460 --> 00:45:22,109
think so uh the reaction online today

1049
00:45:30,420 --> 00:45:26,470
was at least on the twitter hashtag was

1050
00:45:33,329 --> 00:45:30,430
uniform outrage and disbelief and that's

1051
00:45:36,030 --> 00:45:33,339
what you'd expect when somebody puts on

1052
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:36,040
a performance like that for so long i

1053
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:38,770
think it's the appropriate response we

1054
00:45:46,740 --> 00:45:42,970
hope to to ride the wave as it were to

1055
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:46,750
see that that the loopholes that allowed

1056
00:45:52,799 --> 00:45:48,730
him to operate like this for so long are

1057
00:45:55,109 --> 00:45:52,809
are investigated and enclosed that's

1058
00:45:57,780 --> 00:45:55,119
really what we want to see Pierzynski is

1059
00:45:58,620 --> 00:45:57,790
a symptom of a larger problem when we

1060
00:46:01,380 --> 00:45:58,630
want to make sure that this doesn't

1061
00:46:04,319 --> 00:46:01,390
happen again now if i remember correctly

1062
00:46:07,470 --> 00:46:04,329
there was a fellow in the UK a quite a

1063
00:46:11,220 --> 00:46:07,480
young blogger 15 or so 14 or 15 or so

1064
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:11,230
who was blogging about this and i guess

1065
00:46:16,079 --> 00:46:12,970
it was a sort of a Streisand effect when

1066
00:46:21,180 --> 00:46:16,089
the clinic tried to shut him up yeah

1067
00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:21,190
that was Reese Morgan yeah a Welsh kid

1068
00:46:29,569 --> 00:46:26,710
who man is just a fireball when it comes

1069
00:46:34,109 --> 00:46:29,579
to writing about alternative medicine

1070
00:46:37,980 --> 00:46:34,119
and he saw that somebody was raising

1071
00:46:40,670 --> 00:46:37,990
money in his his area for Pierzynski

1072
00:46:43,740 --> 00:46:40,680
treatment he looked into it and he saw

1073
00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:43,750
what skeptics have since seen in fact

1074
00:46:48,900 --> 00:46:46,510
some people Peter Budaj has been

1075
00:46:51,930 --> 00:46:48,910
following it forever um he's been on

1076
00:46:53,130 --> 00:46:51,940
this for forever um but he saw what

1077
00:46:55,799 --> 00:46:53,140
other people said he wrote about it he

1078
00:46:57,720 --> 00:46:55,809
received legal threats well not actual

1079
00:47:00,960 --> 00:46:57,730
real legal threats but pseudo legal

1080
00:47:04,620 --> 00:47:00,970
threats from somebody who had been hired

1081
00:47:07,890 --> 00:47:04,630
by Pierzynski to clean up his web

1082
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:07,900
reputation that didn't work it certainly

1083
00:47:11,970 --> 00:47:10,330
didn't it backfired big-time in fact I

1084
00:47:13,650 --> 00:47:11,980
had a lot of bad publicity for the

1085
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:13,660
clinic which was very pleasing to see of

1086
00:47:20,220 --> 00:47:16,570
the time but I it's it's not an easy

1087
00:47:24,410 --> 00:47:20,230
thing to speak out sometimes because you

1088
00:47:27,270 --> 00:47:24,420
do run the risk of people issuing either

1089
00:47:30,690 --> 00:47:27,280
fake but in sometimes real legal threats

1090
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:30,700
it's true um that's something that has

1091
00:47:36,750 --> 00:47:34,330
been on the mind of skeptics who have

1092
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:36,760
been involved with this for the last two

1093
00:47:40,110 --> 00:47:38,290
years it's been almost exactly two years

1094
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:40,120
since Reese and other bloggers were

1095
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:45,970
threatened and we are well you just do

1096
00:47:50,070 --> 00:47:48,250
you do your due diligence you know that

1097
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:50,080
anything that you say anything that you

1098
00:47:54,060 --> 00:47:52,450
ride could be legally discoverable you

1099
00:48:00,030 --> 00:47:54,070
make sure that you're above board and

1100
00:48:01,710 --> 00:48:00,040
you stick to the facts and you bring in

1101
00:48:03,870 --> 00:48:01,720
as little interpretation as humanly

1102
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:03,880
possible you want to put everything out

1103
00:48:08,700 --> 00:48:06,690
there in an objective way as possible

1104
00:48:10,470 --> 00:48:08,710
yes I think that's very good advice

1105
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:10,480
because there are some people out there

1106
00:48:18,330 --> 00:48:14,290
who you know very well-meaning skeptics

1107
00:48:19,860 --> 00:48:18,340
and people on our side who it's very

1108
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:19,870
difficult and I can appreciate where

1109
00:48:24,690 --> 00:48:21,370
they come from they want to say

1110
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:24,700
something but sometimes you really

1111
00:48:29,460 --> 00:48:27,130
really have to exercise great restraint

1112
00:48:32,220 --> 00:48:29,470
and great patience to I think you can't

1113
00:48:34,500 --> 00:48:32,230
make things happen overnight certainly

1114
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:34,510
and this is a long game he's been doing

1115
00:48:39,870 --> 00:48:36,730
this for a long time it's not going to

1116
00:48:44,610 --> 00:48:39,880
be remedied overnight one of the the

1117
00:48:46,740 --> 00:48:44,620
principles that I are one of the kind of

1118
00:48:48,510 --> 00:48:46,750
fundamental skeptical readings I try to

1119
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:48,520
make sure people read and I know

1120
00:48:55,290 --> 00:48:50,530
skeptical inquirer the magazine does

1121
00:48:59,240 --> 00:48:55,300
this I 24 its new authors is is to share

1122
00:49:01,500 --> 00:48:59,250
ray hymens work about communicating

1123
00:49:04,170 --> 00:49:01,510
skepticism about extraordinary claims

1124
00:49:08,370 --> 00:49:04,180
and you know one of the things he says

1125
00:49:12,050 --> 00:49:08,380
you know know thy stuff you know and do

1126
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:12,060
your homework and anticipate objections

1127
00:49:17,770 --> 00:49:15,130
and let the facts speak from the for

1128
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:17,780
themselves because you know your art

1129
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:21,890
are more persuasive when the conclusions

1130
00:49:29,020 --> 00:49:24,770
are arrived at in the head of your

1131
00:49:30,460 --> 00:49:29,030
audience so we try to practice that one

1132
00:49:33,340 --> 00:49:30,470
of the things that I do with some other

1133
00:49:36,550 --> 00:49:33,350
skeptics is a website called the other

1134
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:36,560
Burzynski patient group hmm and one of

1135
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:39,770
the biggest recruiting tools that

1136
00:49:44,500 --> 00:49:42,770
Brzezinski has benefited from has been

1137
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:44,510
the Pierzynski patient group now these

1138
00:49:50,140 --> 00:49:47,570
are people who went to Pierzynski their

1139
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:50,150
former patients many of them are

1140
00:49:55,030 --> 00:49:52,970
survivors some of them are parents of

1141
00:49:57,910 --> 00:49:55,040
kids who haven't survived but they're

1142
00:50:00,820 --> 00:49:57,920
still supporters and their stories are

1143
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:00,830
extremely extremely convincing and one

1144
00:50:05,230 --> 00:50:02,930
thing that happens when you start

1145
00:50:07,420 --> 00:50:05,240
examining the stories of cancer patients

1146
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:07,430
I don't have much experience with it my

1147
00:50:15,910 --> 00:50:09,290
family I don't know anyone who's had

1148
00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:15,920
cancer but you see that these families

1149
00:50:20,020 --> 00:50:18,170
when they get this bad news they reach

1150
00:50:21,370 --> 00:50:20,030
out to one another and they cling to

1151
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:21,380
other families are going through the

1152
00:50:26,380 --> 00:50:22,850
same thing and the internet makes it

1153
00:50:30,130 --> 00:50:26,390
very easy well what happens is they you

1154
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:30,140
know contact the clinic and somehow can

1155
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:31,970
contact with former patients of the

1156
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:34,850
clinic and they are brought into the new

1157
00:50:40,930 --> 00:50:39,530
cancer family and it's very convincing

1158
00:50:43,510 --> 00:50:40,940
these stories are very convincing and

1159
00:50:45,790 --> 00:50:43,520
for a long time there was no counter

1160
00:50:48,010 --> 00:50:45,800
narrative out there so we set up the

1161
00:50:51,790 --> 00:50:48,020
other Brzezinski patient group for the

1162
00:50:54,130 --> 00:50:51,800
patients who didn't make it and we have

1163
00:50:58,120 --> 00:50:54,140
scoured social media the internet old

1164
00:51:00,460 --> 00:50:58,130
news databases you know Twitter Facebook

1165
00:51:03,430 --> 00:51:00,470
and did we do everything that we can to

1166
00:51:07,060 --> 00:51:03,440
bring these stories to life and we don't

1167
00:51:10,150 --> 00:51:07,070
you know editorialized very much

1168
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:10,160
honestly we just let the patient to tell

1169
00:51:14,230 --> 00:51:13,130
their stories they can't you know for

1170
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:14,240
the most part they can't tell their own

1171
00:51:20,620 --> 00:51:17,770
stories because they haven't made it but

1172
00:51:24,190 --> 00:51:20,630
we feel that the stories of the people

1173
00:51:26,460 --> 00:51:24,200
who didn't made it are the most

1174
00:51:31,090 --> 00:51:26,470
persuasive stories that we can tell

1175
00:51:31,450 --> 00:51:31,100
absolutely right and it reminds me in a

1176
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:31,460
way

1177
00:51:35,140 --> 00:51:33,170
something that James Randi wrote many

1178
00:51:39,250 --> 00:51:35,150
years ago in a book called the faith

1179
00:51:41,500 --> 00:51:39,260
healers where he investigated people

1180
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:41,510
after they've been to a faith healer and

1181
00:51:45,070 --> 00:51:43,010
found that they fall into three

1182
00:51:47,620 --> 00:51:45,080
categories the first category and the

1183
00:51:49,900 --> 00:51:47,630
people who never had the disease in the

1184
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:49,910
first place they claim no cured of the

1185
00:51:54,070 --> 00:51:51,770
second category was the people who still

1186
00:51:55,810 --> 00:51:54,080
had the disease despite being healed by

1187
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:55,820
a faith healer and the third category

1188
00:52:03,430 --> 00:51:58,640
were deceased that's something that

1189
00:52:05,350 --> 00:52:03,440
skeptics can do is is right about write

1190
00:52:10,500 --> 00:52:05,360
the stories of the people who didn't

1191
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:10,510
make it we have seen for decades the FDA

1192
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:15,290
you know the Texas Medical Board and you

1193
00:52:20,890 --> 00:52:18,650
know the prosecutors in Texas fail to

1194
00:52:24,810 --> 00:52:20,900
protect patients and we don't have the

1195
00:52:30,460 --> 00:52:26,980
powers that are needed the the

1196
00:52:33,970 --> 00:52:30,470
investigative legal powers that the

1197
00:52:36,790 --> 00:52:33,980
police would have but we can report and

1198
00:52:38,740 --> 00:52:36,800
we can write and we can discover these

1199
00:52:40,450 --> 00:52:38,750
stories and we can share them and I

1200
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:40,460
think that's powerful I think that's

1201
00:52:46,150 --> 00:52:43,090
very powerful indeed it's good to see

1202
00:52:47,710 --> 00:52:46,160
you skeptics over all over the world can

1203
00:52:51,220 --> 00:52:47,720
actually get together when when

1204
00:52:53,350 --> 00:52:51,230
necessary and affect change so I guess

1205
00:52:55,660 --> 00:52:53,360
the question is to our listeners what

1206
00:52:58,750 --> 00:52:55,670
can they do what can they do now to help

1207
00:53:03,700 --> 00:52:58,760
this process or do to shed light on this

1208
00:53:07,570 --> 00:53:03,710
process yeah well very important things

1209
00:53:11,140 --> 00:53:07,580
are really just to write about Brazil

1210
00:53:14,770 --> 00:53:11,150
ski and to use some SEO search engine

1211
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:14,780
optimization strategies to get good

1212
00:53:20,410 --> 00:53:18,170
information in front of patients who

1213
00:53:24,550 --> 00:53:20,420
might be looking for him and at the

1214
00:53:28,660 --> 00:53:24,560
website the Houston cancer quack com at

1215
00:53:32,230 --> 00:53:28,670
the top of the page you'll see a link to

1216
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:32,240
tips for writing about brzezinski and

1217
00:53:39,100 --> 00:53:35,810
his treatment good link keyword

1218
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:39,110
combinations that that work very well

1219
00:53:46,630 --> 00:53:43,130
and we can boost good content into

1220
00:53:50,590 --> 00:53:46,640
a google for and that's something anyone

1221
00:53:53,550 --> 00:53:50,600
can do in the US since we're going to be

1222
00:53:56,410 --> 00:53:53,560
pushing for legislative reform I think

1223
00:53:58,350 --> 00:53:56,420
and people can get in contact with me

1224
00:54:00,700 --> 00:53:58,360
and I will put them on an action list

1225
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:00,710
that's a great idea what I'll do in the

1226
00:54:04,930 --> 00:54:02,930
show notes for our listeners is I'll put

1227
00:54:08,650 --> 00:54:04,940
those URLs or those websites were

1228
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:08,660
mentioning before the the ones from USA

1229
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:10,010
Today and the other one so they can

1230
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:13,370
easily get the information well Bob it's

1231
00:54:20,220 --> 00:54:17,330
good to see that this person is getting

1232
00:54:23,260 --> 00:54:20,230
the right sort of publicity for a change

1233
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:23,270
we're delighted it was a good day it is

1234
00:54:29,620 --> 00:54:27,290
it a good day indeed Bob great to talk

1235
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:29,630
with you and I hope we can catch up soon

1236
00:54:51,150 --> 00:54:32,210
at some interesting convention somewhere

1237
00:54:55,390 --> 00:54:53,500
astronomy cast it takes a fact space

1238
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:55,400
journey through the cosmos as it offers

1239
00:54:59,980 --> 00:54:57,290
listeners weekly discussions on

1240
00:55:02,890 --> 00:54:59,990
astronomical topics ranging from planets

1241
00:55:05,170 --> 00:55:02,900
to cosmology hosted by Fraser Cain of

1242
00:55:06,190 --> 00:55:05,180
Universe Today and myself dr. Pamela

1243
00:55:08,860 --> 00:55:06,200
gave southern illinois university

1244
00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:08,870
edwardsville this show brings the

1245
00:55:13,180 --> 00:55:10,730
questions of an avid astronomy lover

1246
00:55:15,250 --> 00:55:13,190
directly to an astronomer together

1247
00:55:16,810 --> 00:55:15,260
Fraser and I explore what is known and

1248
00:55:19,570 --> 00:55:16,820
being discovered about the universe

1249
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:19,580
around us join us each week as we take a

1250
00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:21,650
fact space journey through the cosmos at

1251
00:55:39,190 --> 00:55:35,609
here's my not spooky action at a

1252
00:55:43,849 --> 00:55:41,540
we're just in the public after skip de

1253
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:43,859
camp 2013 and suddenly I hear out of the

1254
00:55:50,090 --> 00:55:47,130
corner of my ear that someone's getting

1255
00:55:51,590 --> 00:55:50,100
engaged to their car now I can't let

1256
00:55:53,180 --> 00:55:51,600
this one pass you just you just had a

1257
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:53,190
few too many drinks what's going on and

1258
00:55:59,030 --> 00:55:55,170
who are you and why you engaged to your

1259
00:56:02,599 --> 00:55:59,040
car oh my name is Kay tollway and my

1260
00:56:05,780 --> 00:56:02,609
car's name is B she is nineteen seventy

1261
00:56:08,270 --> 00:56:05,790
one or bug fried orange and we've been

1262
00:56:10,220 --> 00:56:08,280
together for 14 years so it's a

1263
00:56:12,770 --> 00:56:10,230
Volkswagen Beetle violence everyone

1264
00:56:15,260 --> 00:56:12,780
absolutely what color white bright

1265
00:56:18,500 --> 00:56:15,270
orange I I do as much of the mechanical

1266
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:18,510
work myself and I could manage social

1267
00:56:22,310 --> 00:56:20,490
learning after morning you've worked on

1268
00:56:25,550 --> 00:56:22,320
this relationship then I can see why you

1269
00:56:27,109 --> 00:56:25,560
want to sort of legally consumate it

1270
00:56:29,540 --> 00:56:27,119
with this sort of marriage thing why are

1271
00:56:32,780 --> 00:56:29,550
you doing that as somebody who doesn't

1272
00:56:35,030 --> 00:56:32,790
believe in legal institutions are

1273
00:56:37,130 --> 00:56:35,040
married as being a particularly helpful

1274
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:37,140
thing I've gotten involved in lots of

1275
00:56:43,700 --> 00:56:41,010
arguments and when I realized I had

1276
00:56:47,570 --> 00:56:43,710
started bringing up how my car would be

1277
00:56:50,990 --> 00:56:47,580
a better more reliable more tested

1278
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:51,000
relationship but if if I'm going to ever

1279
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:54,330
marry anyone it should be my car on 14

1280
00:57:00,349 --> 00:56:57,450
years I started thinking that maybe this

1281
00:57:02,390 --> 00:57:00,359
there's something in this what is the

1282
00:57:04,370 --> 00:57:02,400
issue you have with a legalized marriage

1283
00:57:09,010 --> 00:57:04,380
is at the whole possession thing what is

1284
00:57:11,750 --> 00:57:09,020
it having the state be the one to decide

1285
00:57:14,150 --> 00:57:11,760
what relationship is valid what

1286
00:57:18,170 --> 00:57:14,160
relationship is not valid what rights

1287
00:57:20,210 --> 00:57:18,180
people get what the category of trouble

1288
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:20,220
you're going to get on I'm trying to

1289
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:22,290
dissolve the relationship all these

1290
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:23,250
things

1291
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:26,610
the rules that the government makes and

1292
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:29,250
that neo liberal government's today do

1293
00:57:34,850 --> 00:57:32,130
tend to bake don't really apply to us as

1294
00:57:37,490 --> 00:57:34,860
it stands you could only marry someone

1295
00:57:40,420 --> 00:57:37,500
of the opposite gender notwithstanding

1296
00:57:43,790 --> 00:57:40,430
that this is eventually going to change

1297
00:57:47,020 --> 00:57:43,800
it's still whatever they're going to do

1298
00:57:51,110 --> 00:57:47,030
to replace that will still likely

1299
00:57:55,700 --> 00:57:51,120
involve an idea of there being two

1300
00:57:58,220 --> 00:57:55,710
genders nothing in between which still

1301
00:58:00,410 --> 00:57:58,230
pigeonholes us in in a very very

1302
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:00,420
fundamental way that most of us except

1303
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:03,570
to but I think we shouldn't which is why

1304
00:58:08,510 --> 00:58:05,970
you're demanding a bit of a is it auto

1305
00:58:10,460 --> 00:58:08,520
filia or auto Radhika I don't know the

1306
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:10,470
exact term for marrying an automobile

1307
00:58:17,050 --> 00:58:13,410
well yesterday was coming out day so hey

1308
00:58:21,050 --> 00:58:17,060
I'm coming out right on air as asexual

1309
00:58:24,140 --> 00:58:21,060
so asexual people generally don't see

1310
00:58:26,780 --> 00:58:24,150
the world in a sexual way it's not what

1311
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:26,790
you do or what you don't do it tell you

1312
00:58:32,270 --> 00:58:29,210
see the world so when I see people

1313
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:32,280
talking about marriage and saying it's a

1314
00:58:37,310 --> 00:58:35,370
sexual thing hello I'm a bit abused it

1315
00:58:39,020 --> 00:58:37,320
doesn't really relate to be anyway yeah

1316
00:58:42,460 --> 00:58:39,030
and actually just as you said that a

1317
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:44,950
on the very very funny visual cue there

1318
00:58:48,310 --> 00:58:47,090
I'm enjoying this is a great discussion

1319
00:58:49,660 --> 00:58:48,320
I think we have a few more drinks and

1320
00:58:51,490 --> 00:58:49,670
have a chat about this I think you

1321
00:58:52,690 --> 00:58:51,500
should get a nice little engagement card

1322
00:58:55,690 --> 00:58:52,700
together or something like that would

1323
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:55,700
you on the front I think I'll have to

1324
00:58:59,020 --> 00:58:56,930
work on that there's a whole industry

1325
00:59:00,640 --> 00:58:59,030
built around marriage there's no reason

1326
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:00,650
why you can't subvert it to be you in

1327
00:59:04,990 --> 00:59:02,930
the car well absolutely actually I was

1328
00:59:07,870 --> 00:59:05,000
just ended up talking to a marriage

1329
00:59:10,870 --> 00:59:07,880
celebrant it's the other day just just

1330
00:59:13,660 --> 00:59:10,880
because we're at the Vintage Fair of all

1331
00:59:16,570 --> 00:59:13,670
things and she says that yes it can

1332
00:59:19,540 --> 00:59:16,580
celebrate anything celebrating your your

1333
00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:19,550
relationship to your car nothing to

1334
00:59:23,859 --> 00:59:22,130
celebrate why not keep an ear out for

1335
00:59:41,950 --> 00:59:23,869
this issue people this is good thank you

1336
00:59:47,710 --> 00:59:44,890
ein grosses hello an ally Dawson to her

1337
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:47,720
that the skeptics on podcasts boasted

1338
00:59:51,730 --> 00:59:49,730
year the Zohan doctrine and in skeptic

1339
00:59:54,300 --> 00:59:51,740
of a band gift for vital information

1340
00:59:58,750 --> 00:59:54,310
newborns on the skeptic magazine

1341
01:00:03,130 --> 00:59:58,760
reserved vvv point and gave a loop a

1342
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:03,140
punk talk hv dejala vvv pont heave a

1343
01:00:26,260 --> 01:00:06,290
rupee potok hold on to the officer and

1344
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:28,550
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1345
01:00:33,170 --> 01:00:30,450
zone well one more week and I'm off to

1346
01:00:35,750 --> 01:00:33,180
the National skeptics convention in

1347
01:00:37,670 --> 01:00:35,760
Canberra in fact the next episode of the

1348
01:00:40,190 --> 01:00:37,680
skeptic zone will be coming to you from

1349
01:00:42,950 --> 01:00:40,200
Canberra from sort of in the middle of

1350
01:00:44,870 --> 01:00:42,960
the skeptics convention no I'm see if I

1351
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:44,880
can find time to put a show together and

1352
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:47,970
a few reports now the dogs are barking

1353
01:00:51,020 --> 01:00:50,010
outside parents are screeching the dogs

1354
01:00:53,900 --> 01:00:51,030
are barking I think there might be

1355
01:00:55,790 --> 01:00:53,910
another storm coming who knows but for

1356
01:00:57,890 --> 01:00:55,800
now this is Richard Saunders signing off

1357
01:01:00,440 --> 01:00:57,900
from Sydney Australia with the dogs are

1358
01:01:02,300 --> 01:01:00,450
barking parrots are screeching and to

1359
01:01:04,849 --> 01:01:02,310
all hang on hang on Twitter it wait a

1360
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:04,859
minute here you go I just noticed I've

1361
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:06,450
been toning up my office I just noticed

1362
01:01:10,340 --> 01:01:08,970
the box of dice so for those people who

1363
01:01:12,620 --> 01:01:10,350
do write to me and ask me to do this

1364
01:01:15,190 --> 01:01:12,630
I'll do it again here we go oh I've got

1365
01:01:19,730 --> 01:01:15,200
my huge 20-sided dice I got from

1366
01:01:21,140 --> 01:01:19,740
dragoncon okay here we go so I think of

1367
01:01:24,859 --> 01:01:21,150
a number of folks think of the number

1368
01:01:27,410 --> 01:01:24,869
from 1 to 20 I'll roll the dice see if

1369
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:27,420
your psychic powers are working thinking

1370
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:28,650
of that number thinking of that number

1371
01:01:38,900 --> 01:01:36,810
here we go 9 until next time this is

1372
01:01:45,109 --> 01:01:38,910
Richard Saunders signing off from Sydney

1373
01:01:46,830 --> 01:01:45,119
Australia you've been listening to the

1374
01:01:51,390 --> 01:01:46,840
skeptic zone

1375
01:01:54,690 --> 01:01:51,400
visit our website at www skeptic zoomtv